Pittsburgh Tribune article about the impending litigation in the diocese of Pittsburgh. If you look below (several posts) there are reports about how this playing out in California and New York. Ephraim Radner says, "This is just a mess".A legal battle over church property could be an expensive and long one.
"You have to look at each church's documents and try to understand the agreement between the church and the diocese," said Munson, an attorney who represented St. James the Less, a historic Episcopal church in Philadelphia, in a case that reached the Pennsylvania Supreme Court and could serve as the legal backdrop for a property fight here.
Those agreements could vary from parish to parish and parcel to parcel, she said. The state Supreme Court ruled in 2006 that St. James the Less, which voted to leave the national church in 1999, retained legal title to its property and that its members and vestry, rather than the bishop, were required to act as the trustees and to use the property for the benefit of the diocese.
"This is just a mess," said the Rev. Ephraim Radner, a leading Episcopal conservative and professor of historical theology at Wycliffe College in Toronto. "It will take years and hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's a terrible scandal, a waste of resources,"
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_595286.html
8 comments:
I think this is a very confusing article. Are we to take Joan Gundersen's comment "TEC has not allowed property to wander off quietly into the night" (or similar words) an observation about the situation at Trinity Cathedral, which has declared itself neutral, or about some other parish? The author of the article juxtaposes comments which may or may not have any direct relationship with each other. Fear starts to work in the heart and mind in regard to recently arrived leaders in the diocese: are they here at the invitation of people in Pgh who aren't interested in individually negotiated settlements, but in some sort of "one size fits all" set of lawsuits designed to help TEC prevent "property wandering off into the night"? (Probably an unfair juxtaposition of Joan's words). I don't really believe that, but it's hard not to fear those outcomes based on this confusingly written article. Please someone show me I'm wrong.
There would be no problem if the people who want to leave TEC just left. That would be the honorable thing to do.
No problem perhaps for one "side of the aisle" here
in Pittsburgh, but there certainly would be for many on the other "side of the aisle" of those remaining, especially in the case of the cathedral. The last time I heard, there was going to be an accommodation that would be acceptable all the way around. That's why the article was so confusing. Where are you from?
North of you in NWPA.
Are you far enough north to be in the
Diocese of Northwestern PA? (Sorry
if this question appears twice--I wrote
it first last night, but don't see it
on line this morning).
Me again, pseudopiskie--just read on your blog that you believe "religion is all man-made, hence all our squabbles" (or words to that effect). The belief that there really isn't a God "out there" who cares about us, and who speaks through the Bible (imperfect though that record is)--that "God" is basically a projection of human ideals--is probably one of the biggest differences between conservatives and (some, definitely not all) liberals. It's OK with me when good friends in my parish say that they think the liturgy is all metaphor, and the Bible is simply a record of human thoughts about what is durable and important. The problem for many of us comes when leaders of the church are perceived as thinking religious faith is all man-made. I think that difference is an important cause of many of our arguments right now, and why some congregations try to leave TEC as whole congregations: they and their leaders have built up the faith where they are, with each other, as a body, with the Bible and Book of Common Prayer seen as ways to think about an "out-there God", who cares tremendously, who is not invented by their friends or forbears, and they don't want to just trickle out as individuals (which some say is the "honourable" thing to do). I wish they could see that many who remain in TEC--including the leadership--think as they do, and that would stay and witness to their faith. But when their beliefs are belittled, as you
seem to be doing (perhaps I misunderstand), it's quite a challenge.
I do hope there is property litigation. I'm sorry but my parish of 38 years walked out the door and their former rector systematically pushed out any dissent. What was left were people who said yes or who have just gone along for the sake of the parish family.
I'm sorry Celinda but those people who left TEC should've started their own church. When my father left the Roman Catholic Church he didn't take anything with him. He didn't get refund on the money he gave or the time he spent fundraising or giving freely of his talents. He married my mother and became an Episcopalian.
It's ironic that some realigners have already started turf warfare since the split. You might have missed that one. Seems St. David's is take pot shots at St. Paul's.
Don't mean to sound nasty. I'm thinking of people who have been pushed out of their homes (yes a church can be for some a second home). What about them? Doesn't seem like realigners care much about there former charges. I received a letter from my former parish saying some will leave. "Be gracious and loving," as they are forced to leave. My idea of Christianity.
Our parish is staying in TEC, I'm grateful to say, but some members have felt forced out and have left. I don't think the situation with your father is the same thing; although many RCs have had to face the difficulties with their church that mixed-faith marriage presents, their predicaments are based on individual life choices. They have left because they were in love with someone who was not an RC, not because the RC church seemed to have started teaching something different from the faith they had learned from their youth. -- You don't mention negotiation, just litigation; is that a conscious choice? --I didn't know about the St. David's/St. Paul's situation; I'm very sorry to hear about it.
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